Bi-Weekly MIN Farm Allocation [Week 1]

I say we cut by 0.25 points from all across the board (except DANA) so MIN can get its increase but other pools aren’t negatively impacted too much. The CLAP tokens is new and I don’t think 1 week is long enough to adequately allow them to get some momentum. Hold off on these changes for at least 1 month to allow for volume to kick in and get good data analysis. Too soon.

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This is calvinball.

If you are just going to pick winners and losers by changing the rules mid game admit that is what you are doing and be clear about it.

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I think this is just a bit too soon. Give it a month and then make these changes.

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Changing the allocations so soon is crazy, you need more time to let the initial farming settle down. Come up with a review period say monthly or bi-weekly so you can make a more informed decision. Changing it so soon and if you start doing it often just turns this into a yield game not a serious DEX.

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Additionally this kind of “rebalancing” brings up conflicts of interest.

Any committee making recommendations like these should be transparent about the stakes they have in affected ventures.

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All, I created a proposal to see what support we have to delay this proposal. Please vote here Hold off on Week 1 Yield Farm Rebalancing

CLAP is new token and to decrease its share to 2.5 points isn’t just fare to token holders. Give it some time, the amount of transactions will rise and it will bring more fees to pool.

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Hello,

I voted to keep the old allocation, for now, for the following reason :

It could be selfish, but the CLAP/ADA pool is the only one I’m in, and I don’t want its rewards to be reduced.
But there is more.

I believe that these guys are working on what is probably one of the most meaningful projects ever created on the blockchain. More than that, I’m convinced that enabling them to do what they do should be the main reason why blockchain was even created in the first place.
They are literally building some tools that will allow us to take care of the world, and to look at our children with being (a little) less ashamed of what we have done with the planet we live on.

It triggers me a bit to see its pool loose 0,5 points, when Ardana gains one, and Pavia and Hosky looses so little.
The Impact Projects they are trying to launch should be everyone’s top priority in our decade, because without them, I believe that we won’t even be able to enjoy the other projects for long.

Ask all the people who suffer if they would prefer a Metaverse or some remote controlled motion detector, instead of a solution to their social and environmental issues.

Dear Commitee, you have a role to play in this, too.

If you either can provide a balance where Cardashift keeps its share, or if you can show me that the suggested one is the best for Minswap, and all of the projects on it, you will get my vote :+1:

Thank you for what you are doing :slight_smile:

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If the goal is to create and maintain robust liquidity on Minswap, the small changes proposed by the team indicate that they believe their initial allocation was very close to ideal. This should be great news. However, I personally think that one week is not so much time and that leaving allocations alone temporarily would’ve also been acceptable until more data was available.

Along those lines, I wouldn’t mind seeing better rationale for how the points were chosen. Though TVL, APR, and Volume were mentioned, statements like “Ardana aims to be a hub for all stablecoin trading” and “DANA will play a significant role in the Cardano DeFi ecoystem” gives the impression that the decision-making process was not as data-driven as maybe it was. Nearly all of these projects aim to play a significant role in Cardano DeFi.

Lastly, I will invite the wrath of many by suggesting this but, please consider dropping HOSKY from yield farming. We are giving up valuable rewards to a meme instead of another worthwhile project.

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I agree that one week is not enough time to make a desision about rebalancing.
Idealy, we don’t want to change the pools weight every weeks.
We should wait to have more data, then do a rebalancing.
I suggest waiting at least 3 weeks, ideally one month.

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Strongly agree with personal disclosures. Maybe we can see the wallet contents of the kitty farmers? (Thinking of a way to use blockchain tech to our advantage. We are trying to be different than the typical corrupt financial system yes?).

Would also like to see exactly how these numbers are being derived.

Also I don’t fully understand the DANA argument. Why not just increase the MIN pool even more? I’m wondering what I get as a MIN holder of giving more rewards to DANA holders.

Further, is there any plans to have some sort of voting scheme where we can be assured people are voting in the best interest of MIN? What is to stop someone from ex DANA coming in and voting to raise their rewards significantly?

Thank you

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Two of the main goals for the re-allocation were evening out APRs after collecting practical data and still keep incentivizing liquidity for chosen projects. Even though those goals seem conflicting the new point allocation will do exactly that.

Kitty and Cat farms have been dominating yield farming APR since the beginning by a large margin compared to the lower rated Tiger farms. Gradually decreasing their points will even this out. A decrease of 0.5 points seems like a cautious and fair approach to accomplish that while still leaving them in a very good position.

Giving MIN a large portion of the remaining points is self-explanatory and makes total sense because of the imminent drop of NFT boosts. It will help to stabilize the platform’s token.
Incentivizing DANA is debatable, but the core of point systems like that is to pick and reward certain projects more than others. If the team agreed upon DANA after discussing it, it is most likely a sound decision in those early stages. Governance will make this process more transparent in the future.

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This action would make every Wall Street bank and trading firm look moral and ethical. You cannot do this in good conscience. Any trading firm or trader who did something like this would be in jail for obvious insider trading violations.

If the people who run Minswap make this move they will do massive damage to the Cardano ecosystem. Minswap Ownership right now is the front face of Ada and this will make the Cardano Network look like a bunch of corrupt insiders that trade unethically and crush small investors who are not on the inside.

This is currently the largest dex and influence in the market and we are seeing the trading platform pick winners and losers. They are doing it without disclosing positions that they hold and they are doing it with a 2 day notice.

That is transparently insider trading and completely absurd.

Hey Contra, thanks very much for the input, it has made us think a lot! I have edited the proposal now following yours and other peoples input. But, let me address your points:

  1. DANA. I dont see why you say the best place to trade the DANA token will be the concomitant protocol (Ardana). Ardana is a stablecoin hub, and as such, it is meant to trade only stablecoins and other similar assets. Using the Curve stableswap formula for non-stable assets can be pretty dangerous, because at one point in the formula slippage becomes huge. If Ardana wants/does succeed, it will need a CPMM (Constant Product Market Maker) with a deep and reliable DANA pool for the token to trade in. This is what we aim to become and thus we want to scale that DANA liquidity thru the MIN Farm. Also, have a look at current DANA/ADA APR, its pretty low now hehe.

  2. It is a good point yes. Tbh, we are looking mostly at APRs right now, and at how much MIN we are spending per pool to get TVL + Volume, thats why we wanted to scale back a bit the Kitty Farms. Going forward, we need to start taking into account more quantitative data/metrics for the adjustment. Ideally, we have a hybrid model that combines quantitative and qualitative analysis. For now, however, this seems difficult to implement, but we are working on it already with some community members. The problem with Sundae is that they exclusively look at TVL, we should consider other factors as well (volume, partnership, new farm…).

  3. On accountability: no proposal is being passed unanimously, there are 26 people who voted on this allocation including the Minswap team. We have published the rebalance to the public before it is implemented and just 1 day after we came to this new allocation. We are also actively monitoring the Forum for feedback, in fact we decided to extend the implementation one week till the 29th of March to ensure we take as much feedback as possible, and we are still open to make adjustments. I, personally, am against any sort of “personal disclusure of biases”, because we have made it clear that we will be looking and adjusting the allocations according to the feedback from the Forum. I believe we should look exclusively at the strength of arguments, instead of who is laying them out. Thats why I am aiming to respond to every comment. If you disagree with my points, kindly lmk, and we could readjust the entire proposal if what you propose makes more sense :slight_smile:

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Hi there so as I laid out here some arguments that I think address your points Bi-Weekly MIN Farm Allocation [Week 1] - #21 by PGSargent

But so regarding the “wallet contents of the kitty farmers”, I personally think this souldnt matter as long as we can have meaningful discussions around the allocations and the moment you think our arguments arent making sense then Ill be the first one to change my opinion. But, I dont think its fair to make the KFs disclose their holdings for this (plus it would be very difficult to really to reliably do this, as u say this is blockchain and wallets are anonymous).

Lemme ask, do you think it would be better if the Minswap Team were deciding these allocations on our own then, instead of taking input from these trusted community members? Cause we could do that as well.

I addressed the DANA argument in the answer to Contra, if you still feel like we rather give the extra point to DANA to MIN, then let me know.

Eventually, these votes could happen on-chain and be done by MIN holders. For now, it is the Minswap Team and Kitty Farmers (who always will aim to benefit Minswap as muc as possible) the ones debating on the allocation.

How is this insider trading? We are openly laying out an allocaiton and asking for feedback.

I agree, it was too rushed, we have decided to extend the discussion/implementation of new points till March 29th (so 1 more week).

It is difficult to have any meaningful discussion with someone when your only argument is that this is insider trading. We have said from the beginning, that farms will be adjusted weekly/bi-weekly, and we believe we have made a strong case of why we want to rebalance it this way.

Can you please explain what you find so disturbing of the new allocation?

Thats a good point, and yes many protocols such as Trader Joe on Avalanche do the big re-allocations monthly. But on early stages, we do feel like balancing might have to be done quicker. We have extended this proposal to a week however, so we ahve till the 29th of March to discuss. How does bi-weekly rebalancing sound though?

While I am personally a huge HOSKY fan, I think sadly the majority of the KFC (Kitty Farmer Committee) agrees with you on HOSKY :frowning: . So yes, maybe we do progressively lower the points on this farm if this sentiment is also the same for the greater Minswap community.

Regarding the other points. I agree, many people say it feels too rushed. So, we have decided to do it bi-weekly for now, and extend the current allocation and feedback process until the 29th of March.

Regarding DANA, apologies, we dont think we made a strong enough case in the original post. We have edited it since to reflect the thinking behind it more, and I have also done another comment where I touch on it a bit as well Bi-Weekly MIN Farm Allocation [Week 1] - #21 by PGSargent . Lmk if u disagree.

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Hi Minswappers, JWolfish, kitty farmer reporting in. I would like to present some of the numbers we looked at while making the (very mild) week 1 yield farming adjustments.The first set of point allocations was set rather arbitrarily by the Minswap team alone, and it was obvious almost immediately that there were some over-allocations to the smaller marketcap tokens.

Let’s look at the weekly TVL and trading volume for last week.These numbers go through Saturday, March 19.

Screenshot 2022-03-21 193056

I have highlighted in green some of the trading pairs that we have proposed decreased the point allocation on. As you can see, they are some of the least efficient pairs for us right now–we are paying out a lot of MIN for the amount of locked liquidity that is in those trading pools. Additionally, some (not all), are somewhat expensive on the volume front as well…AADA and VYFI we were paying a lot of MIN for a relatively low amount of trading volume. A dex survives mainly on two things (three, but I’ll get to that next): Trading volume, which brings in fees, and Total Value Locked, which is how deep and how liquid your trading pools are. You want to incentivize people to bring their liquidity to Minswap, but you don’t want to waste MIN (which is essentially a finite resource) paying for a small amount of liquidity with low trading volume.

Now, these pairs are important to the dex, do not misunderstand me! It is why they are getting MIN right now at all. A minor adjustment of a half point in CNETA, AADA, VYFI, and CLAP is a pretty minor adjustment. In terms of PAVIA we do propose removing a full point. This is about a 15% reduction to all four pairs.

Then, there is HOSKY. Honestly, Minswap attempted to capitalize on the meme potential of the token to draw in liquidity. And, in my opinion, to attempt to teach the large amount of HOSKY holders something about how defi works, with the hope that in the future they might also want to hold other Cardano tokens, participate in other defi projects, and of course, continue to trade on Minswap. Obviously, it has not attracted a huge pool, and trading volume is low there. So, we reduced HOSKY point allocation by a HOSKY-appropriate meme number. This will probably continue, as it’s true that we really don’t want to spend a lot of MIN on a dog. :kissing_heart:

So where do we put the points we have freed up? Again, we made two minor changes. As the liquidity of the DANA pool had recently increased massively (and that wallet or wallets have now staked, as I write this the APR of that pool is 60%), we proposed adding 1 point to DANA. Ardana is a key project for Cardano, and we wish to be the main dex to trade their governance token. The remaining points we added to the ADA/MIN pool. Yes, it is already somewhat expensive in terms of MIN to liquidity based on this chart. But since Saturday, an additional 33 million in ADA/MIN TVL has been added to the pool. Additionally, we thought slightly cushioning the loss of the LBE boost would be a nice gesture to the community of MIN holders. Remember that third component of a DEX survival? It is maintaining a reasonable way to compensate its liquidity providers. Currently, we do that by providing MIN rewards, and offering a way to get MIN rewards by providing further ADA/MIN liquidity.

Finally, let’s look at the MIN/TVL scores with the new points!

Screenshot 2022-03-21 195106

Again, these numbers are from last Saturday! TVL on many of these pools is much higher right now, but this is what we were looking at when we were making our proposals. As you can see, these minor changes still leave the kitty farms and cNETA as some of the best-compensated trading pairs on the dex, although I feel that it is more in line with the higher marketcap pairs. We are still paying kitty farm holders extremely well for locking their liquidity with Minswap! MIN remains the top, but again…right now it has over 90 million in TVL, where this sheet just accounts for 57.8 million.

I hope this addresses some of the questions about why we are proposing what we are, and I hope that looking at the actual MIN spend helps you see that we aren’t cheating any token holder out of just rewards, we are just looking to optimize where best to spend MIN to attract the liquidity we want to have in this dex. Thank you for reading this book, and I’ll see you in Discord!

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One point of clarification. The ADA/MIN TVL on Saturday March 19 was actually about 83 million. In my spreadsheet, I had removed the 25,200,000 worth of Minswap-owned ADA/MIN LP pairs that exist from the LBE. Minswap is not farming with that liquidity, so I just wanted to account for the liquidity that had potential to be yield farmed. Sorry for any confusion…I wasn’t looking at my reminder note that I had made that subtraction when I pulled those screenshots!

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